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Monday, August 27, 2012

Food for thought, Gun Nuts

Whenever there is a mass shooting on the news, like the recent one in Colorado, or the Virginia Tech shooting or whatever, the gun nuts always come out with their "if only those people had been armed, they could have stopped it," or "if I'd a been there, I'd a shot that sumbitch" kind of nonsense. If only there were more gun-toting rednecks in that theater, or on that campus or wherever, this tragedy could have been avoided.

I know I'd feel safer with this guy around!

So, let's look at the most recent gun-related tragedy, the Empire State Building shooting:

Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers

By David Ariosto, CNN
New York (CNN) -- On a busy Friday morning in Manhattan, nine pedestrians suffered bullet or fragment wounds after police unleashed a hail of gunfire at a man wielding a .45 caliber pistol who had just killed a former co-worker.
The officers unloaded 16 rounds in the shadow of the Empire State Building at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities said.
Three passersby sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, according to New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. All injuries were caused by police, he said Saturday.

 Okay, these were cops. These two guys were highly trained in the use of firearms. And they were used to encountering scary, life-or-death situations because they were NYPD cops. And they succeeded in wounding 9 innocent bystanders while killing the shooter. These were New York City police officers, the best possible people to be involved in this sort of thing,

and they managed to shoot 9 innocent bystanders. How well do you think Cletus from the gun club might do? 

Sorry, wrong Gun Club.

The guys you want sitting next to you at Batman.

 Do you really think, now think seriously for a minute, do you really think that a bunch of moviegoers in a dark theater blinded by tear gas would have been able to get off a kill shot without accidentally shooting, oh, I don't know, maybe every other audience member?

Do you really think that a bunch of college kids, completely unprepared to engage in a firefight, would shoot the right guy in a moment of panic? Because if you do, I don't see how you explain trained police officers missing their target 8 different times. 

Just something to think about.


jadedj said...

Excellent post. However, the first photo is an assault on my pure and highly developed aesthetic sense. There is nothing to do but poke my eyes out and perform a self-lobotomy.

Lowell said...

I agree completely.

There's no way any civilian should be able to buy a machine gun in this country. And the NRA needs to be taken down several notches.

More guns in the hands of your neighbors and mine will not stop crime. Esp. when our neighbors might be as crazy as a loon!

democommie said...

decided to cross post this comment at my place as well as here.

I'm not sure that the two patrolmen involved in the shooting have "extensive" firearms training. I'm sure that they are both range qualified and have had the basic four hammered into their skulls. There are many people, including gunzloonz, who have done a LOT of training, including simulations of combat, hostage rescues and the like. That being said; training does not = experience. Never has, never will.

The number of cops who engage career violent criminals; enraged spouses/family/friends in domestic disputes; people acting erratically--and in a threatening manner--while under the influence of drugs and the myriad of others with whom they interact on a daily basis and DON'T kill or maim more than a tiny fraction of them speaks to their training in dealing with people, not just firearms.

The average gunzloon (not hunter, not hobbyist, not enacter)--someone whose identity is inextricably bound to his love/need for teh gunz is NOT trained/experienced in the use of non-escalating intervention into tense situations. Self-reports by some of the moronz who infest places like Mikeb302000's blog indicate that THEY will know how to deal with a situation in which they feel threatened. Their method of dealing with the situation generally begins at the level of brandishing their weapon.

And, while teh gunzloonz KNOW how to deal with the "other"* they will often state, explicitly, that policing is not their job (while maintaining that the police are incompetent, lazy, ignorant and homicidally inclined); they are only interested in protecting their safety, their property and those whom they might happen to be with--about whom they have any feelings of affection or community.

I'll take a cop with mediocre firearms training/experience over a gunzloon with zero training/experience in negotiation, criminal psychology, crowd control and other policing procedures--in a NY second.

* The "other" in this case being, well, everybody that they don't know.

dog gone said...

Copying democommie, crossposting a comment from his blog:
No matter how you cut it, the gunloonz have no factual record on which to assert they would do better.

They are amateurs, not professionals.

Lets face it, most of them are old, white, flabby and crabby; not fit, not supervised, and not insured --- and apparently more than a little delusional.

One of the advantages to leaving law enforcement decisions to law enforcement is that they are insured if they make a mistake -- and mistakes do happen, because no one can reasonably be held to a standard of perfection.

That said, the very nature of purchasing insurance means that there are standards of risk management in effect, and that those insured have to meet criteria of insurability that they will cause the least possible expenditure under that policy. In other words, they have to meet standards that show they are unlikely to make those mistakes, and will follow policies that don't result in the insurance company paying out for mistakes, while at the same time being held to performance standards as a condition of employment by the PD.

It is appearing that the injuries were all or nearly all caused by bullet fragments or fragments that are encompased under the term shrapnel.

If the gun loonz can promise that no shot will send out a splinter of any kind when it hits a target, I'd like to see them deliver on that promise. If they can assure us that they use ammo that will never ever ever splinter or deform in any way, I'd like to examine that ammo. If they can demonstrate they have a better practical understanding of the law, than an on-duty cop, I'd like to see that proven too.

If not, they should shut the heck up, because they are talking stupid.